One guy made a post recently suggesting for a 5v5 tournament (the competitive scene for the game is fully 3v3), to make it mandatory to include one girl per team. Reading the comments on it make me pretty mad seeing as basically everybody was totally against it and did not understand the argument of representation. I quoted the most liked reply and posted something that I believe I am in the right for. I ended up arguing with ppl for hours and it was honestly so sad to see how narrow minded so many ppl within my game’s community are (which I was already aware of but it’s still sad). I would like to include more screenshots in the comments.
This is the same logic of how “women don’t play games so stop catering to them”, you make a market that exclusively caters to men and then push out anyone else and then say it’s just because it’s not appealing or profitable to do, well no shit. No women play esport because they are actively being pushed out by how toxic people can be? Wow I wonder why no women want to do esport..
There is a reason I’m ashamed to be associated with “gamers” while also gaming a lot as a hobby, it’s downright embarrassing how awful a lot of men are, especially online.
Its like when men took womens rights and then turned around and said see? Those females cant even finish school. But they were not allowed 🤪
Love it when dudes tout the meritocracy while remaining wilfully blind to the patriarchal dividend that ensures a guy of mediocre skill will always be chosen over a woman of superior skill 🙄
100% NTA
I dont think you’re an asshole in your replies. You’re getting somewhat heated towards the end, but it’s understandable. I agree that there’s this cycle of hostility for women and girls in games that actively affects their ability to get into the top level of competitive play. I don’t think quotas are the way it can be fixed, though.
For chess, they have a women’s league, which isn’t because women are worse but to allow women a space to compete with less intimidation, which is a major barrier to people picking up and sticking with the game. A place where if you lose, you are worse for reasons other than your gender.
The main league is open, not gender specific. This allows women from the women’s league to play at both or cross over as their confidence grows. It also allows the community to grow.
It is a bit slow moving, though, because if women can’t practice with the best, they can’t play as well as the best. This means it takes a while to build up a community of similar skill.
I think doing similar for game leagues is a great idea to help build up representation and community.
My pea brain can’t understand the post exactly, but you’re nta if you only shared a non-hateful opinion.
I do not think girls ought to be shoved into teams *just* because girl. That will only cause more resentment and backlash and may result in girls with lower skill levels than boys on the teams which only gives more ammo to the idea that girls are inherently worse at games, which is asinine.
Now, if a girl and a boy are both of equal skill, I think the girl ought to be chosen for the sake of opportunity or representation.
(I used *girl* and *boy* because the post does; switch in *women*, *men*, etc. where necessary of course)
EDIT:
This user did a dumb and is no longer comfortable in her input
Rip my reading comprehension
Honestly, people should just give equal opportunities, not force such restrictions. I don’t think they’re wrong to be mad over that existing as that can mean you or your buddy can be excluded based on something like this, but I don’t think you’re wrong in what you said either. Give people opportunities and they’ll actually use them. Also, maybe it’s just me but being included based on my gender or something else that we don’t exactly have a choice on changing feels like I wouldn’t earn it-
But if somehow this helps anyone then fuck it, ignore all I said and I hope that the long term positives outweigh all the short term negatives.
Ah yes, boy on Twitter/X. That’s the first big one, majority of the manchildren on that platform are very much very misogynist, sexist, generally bigots.
Second of all, every single one is awful and very much the problem, because they put the work on the victim. “just find someone who isn’t sexist”, really? How about you call your bros out, dude?
You’re not at all the AH. Those dudes are all aholes, and I guarantee they throw sexist slurs around in game all the time. Just don’t like being called out.
[deleted]
Read through the replies, and spotted this response:
>*”if you are good enough people will give you your chance”*
This is such a bad reason to justify the current state of esports and there are more than enough examples to prove it. The first female player in the Overwatch League, Geguri, was accused of cheating so much because she was a woman that she had to prove her innocence via a stream hosted by someone else and multiple camera POVs. Two pro players thought her skill was so impossible that they would quit the competitive scene if it was real (and they did, after Blizzard Korea cleared her name). *Look* at how she was threatened by other pro players:
>From Kotaku:
*”Dizziness member Strobe … is also quoted as saying, “If there is a problem with our sponsors and such,* ***I may visit Geguri’s house with a knife in hand***. **I am not joking.**”
*…*
*According to Lime, the Dizziness players supposedly said if it was proven that Geguri didn’t cheat, they would visit her in person and apology. They also apparently said they would quit Overwatch and retire from esports.”*
Additionally, former semi-pro Overwatch player Aspen had [multiple professional players throw her games](https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchTMZ/comments/16o2plu/unnamed_pro_players_allegedly_threw_aspens_games/) to prevent her getting Rank 1 (she got it anyway though). An Overwatch Contenders (semi-pro league) coach was also found saying, [“females should not be in my [top ranked] games.” ](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/overwatch-contenders-controversy-has-once-again-made-things-more-difficult-for-women-in-esports)A female Hearthstone player was [accused of being a man](https://kotaku.com/why-people-believed-a-top-hearthstone-player-was-tricki-1687042036) and her playstyle heavily scrutinised just because she was better than male players thought possible for a woman. She ended up leaving the scene after that.
It’s like the lack of female chess players at the very highest level of play. When you have people like Bobby Fischer saying women aren’t smart enough to play chess, who would want to be a part of that community? Look at the way Polgár, widely considered the best female chess player of all time, was treated. Kasparov was quoted in an interview, after being confronted for breaking the rules and moving his piece again after letting go, as saying: “I think a girl of her age should be taught some good manners before making such statements.” After Korchnoi lost a blitz match to Polgár, she said, “I was scared to lose the respect you had towards me”, and he responded, [“It is the very first and the very last time you’ll ever win a game against me.”](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3SPqmOO7A-4)
Like sure, if you have the skill, you will make it – but you would be a fool to say it to imply marginalised tournaments aren’t worthwhile. As a female player with high skill, you will go through accusations, scrutiny, throwing, and constant disrespect just for being who you are, and most women don’t want to deal with this on top of all of life’s other difficulties just for a shot at what is a pretty fragile career path. More resources, opportunity, and support for women is necessary in the current scene.
I think this is a combination of “well the owls haven’t hunted me, I don’t know what the rabbits are upset about” and “I don’t know how to teach something moderately complex when you don’t understand the fundamentals supporting this theory”
So the fools are certain you’re a whiny exaggerator and are making up excuses for being bad when the reality is that either A) they’ve just never been exposed to this or B) it’s such a normal thing it blends into the background and it’s easy to condone the dust under the fridge.
The thing is, alongside all other systemic oppressions, I have no idea how to solve it. My first thought was “make our own league with blackjack and hookers” but I’ve tried and failed to make groups too many times to know it takes a certain set of skills I’ll never have.
That and this comes with the caveat of “…do I really want to put in time effort and money to be annoyed by fuckboys?” but also if we don’t do *something* to foster a better future, no one else will.
If you’re the commenter, I completely agree. NTA
you’re right but i don’t think arguing on twitter is a productive use of your time. i feel like im more likely to win the lottery than convince a man to give a fuck about misogyny
Edit: pls read the screenshots I shared under the pinned bot comment lol
All the hatred I see is fear and jealousy induced, and they should feel fear, we’re coming, increasing in numbers, uniting, invading their precious gaming spaces muahahahaha >:) On a more serious note, it’s important to be aware of these sentiments, but take active steps in changing the mindset of the overall community. Don’t get too upset with people like this, God knows how they came up with that mindset.
It’s not much use trying to find evidence of how things could be different. These people have spent way too much time trying to validate themselves as superior by accepting any proof of some natural order. Patriarchal thinking can’t be dispelled with proof of any kind, they’ll just find another hole to crawl into.
Eh, I say screw em’. They don’t know what they’re missing out on.
Also arguing with people like that on the internet is just gonna put you in a bad mood. They’re not here to have their minds changed they’re just here to scream their opinions into the echo chamber they’ve found.